{"id":22993635,"date":"2026-09-17T12:38:55","date_gmt":"2026-09-17T10:38:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/su-27-vs-mig-29-ethiopia-eritrea-air-war-1999\/"},"modified":"2026-09-17T12:39:25","modified_gmt":"2026-09-17T10:39:25","slug":"su-27-vs-mig-29-ethiopia-eritrea-air-war-1999","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/es\/su-27-vs-mig-29-ethiopia-eritrea-air-war-1999\/","title":{"rendered":"Su-27 vs MiG-29: The Only War They Fought Each Other"},"content":{"rendered":"<style>.et_pb_title_container h1.entry-title { padding-top: 40px !important; }<\/style>\r\n\r\n<p>The <a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/aircraft\/su-27-flanker\/\">Su-27<\/a> and the <a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/aircraft\/mig-29-fulcrum\/\">MiG-29<\/a> were designed in the same country, in the same decade, against the same American threat. They were never supposed to meet.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>They met exactly once, in February 1999, over a stretch of scrub on the border between Ethiopia and Eritrea. Both fleets had been bought from Russia within months of each other. Both were maintained by ex-Soviet technicians. In at least one telling, both were flown by men trained at the same schools.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>It is the only head-to-head combat record the two aircraft have, which is why it gets quoted constantly. It is also one of the worst-documented air wars of the modern era, and most of what circulates about it is wrong.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f5f6f8;border-left:4px solid #5C91FF;padding:18px 22px;margin:26px 0\"><p style=\"margin:0 0 10px;font-weight:700;font-size:17px;color:#0d1117\">Quick Facts<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0;font-size:15px\"><strong>War:<\/strong> Eritrean&ndash;Ethiopian War (the Badme War), 6 May 1998 to 18 June 2000<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0;font-size:15px\"><strong>Ethiopia bought:<\/strong> Su-27s from Russia, delivered from December 1998. Sources say 8, 9 or about 10<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0;font-size:15px\"><strong>Eritrea bought:<\/strong> MiG-29s, also from Russia, delivered 1998. Sources say 6 or 10<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0;font-size:15px\"><strong>Confirmed MiG-29 losses to Su-27s:<\/strong> Two, both named pilots, February 1999<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0;font-size:15px\"><strong>Claimed:<\/strong> Up to five, depending on which account you read<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0;font-size:15px\"><strong>Su-27 losses to enemy action:<\/strong> None. No source claims any<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0;font-size:15px\"><strong>The technical headline:<\/strong> Beyond-visual-range missiles achieved essentially nothing<\/p><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Two poor countries buy fourth-generation fighters<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>The war began over Badme, a dusty triangle of disputed border that neither country had bothered to demarcate. Within weeks it had escalated into something neither air force was remotely equipped for, and both governments went shopping.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Ethiopia bought Flankers from Russian Ministry of Defence surplus, a package worth around $150 million including helicopters. Eritrea bought Fulcrums. SIPRI\u2019s arms transfer register, the only genuinely independent accounting of any of this, records Russia as the supplier of both, and notes that Eritrea\u2019s MiG-29s were sold as a package that also included pilots and technicians.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>SIPRI\u2019s own summary of what followed is the flattest sentence written about this war.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f8f9fa;border-left:4px solid #5C91FF;padding:20px 22px;margin:18px 0 24px;font-size:16px;line-height:1.7\"><em>&ldquo;In early 1999 Russian Sukhoi aircraft supplied to Ethiopia in 1998 shot down Russian MiG aircraft supplied to Eritrea in 1998.&rdquo;<\/em><div style=\"margin-top:10px;font-size:14px;color:#555\"><strong>Pieter D. Wezeman<\/strong> &mdash; SIPRI, <em>United Nations Arms Embargoes: Case study &mdash; Eritrea and Ethiopia, 2000&ndash;2001<\/em><\/div><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>Even the aircraft counts are contested. Tom Cooper, whose work underpins nearly everything written about African air wars, says eight Su-27s and ten MiG-29s. SIPRI\u2019s register says nine and six. SIPRI\u2019s own prose says &ldquo;about ten&rdquo; each. Nobody agrees on which MiG-29 variant Eritrea flew.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\" style=\"margin:0 0 24px;width:100%\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" width=\"1024\" src=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2026\/09\/mikoyan-mig-29-fulcrum-a.jpg\" alt=\"A Mikoyan MiG-29 Fulcrum-A preserved on display\" style=\"width:100%;height:auto;max-width:100%;display:block\"><figcaption style=\"font-size:13px;color:#777;text-align:center;margin-top:6px;font-style:italic\">A MiG-29 Fulcrum-A. No photographs of Eritrean Air Force MiG-29s appear to be publicly available, so this is an aircraft of the type rather than one of the machines involved. Photo: Wikimedia Commons<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">What actually holds up<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>Strip away the retellings and two engagements survive scrutiny, both in late February 1999, both during Ethiopia\u2019s Operation Sunset to retake Badme.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>In the first, an Eritrean MiG-29 flown by <strong>Yonas Misghinna<\/strong> was shot down and the pilot killed. In the second, the following day, the Eritrean command sent <strong>Samuel Girmay<\/strong> to the same area against the same threat, and he was killed the same way. Cooper and Fontanellaz&rsquo;s 2018 account credits both to a single Ethiopian pilot, Lt-Col. Gebre-Salassie.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>What makes these two stand up where the rest do not is that they are confirmed from the Eritrean side, by someone who knew the men. Dejen Ande Hishel was a MiG-29 pilot and Yonas Misghinna\u2019s childhood friend. He was arrested in March 1999, aged 23, and held without charge for fifteen years before escaping from a maximum-security prison in Asmara in 2014 by stealing a running vehicle and driving it through the gate. He now lives in Sweden, and he is the single most valuable living witness to this war.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%;height:0;overflow:hidden;margin:24px 0\"><iframe class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/_PW2_k4OyAY\" style=\"position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;border:0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>Dejen Ande Hishel, the Eritrean MiG-29 pilot, interviewed after his escape. His account of the training, the losses and the command decisions behind them is the closest thing this war has to a primary source.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>His account adds the detail that turns a scoreline into a tragedy. After Yonas was lost, the Eritrean government &mdash; which had ordered the air force to defend the airspace regardless of circumstances &mdash; skipped the investigation that would normally follow a combat loss and sent the next pilot to the same place. Dejen also says the aircraft themselves were second-hand and defective: that the ejection systems did not work and the parachutes did not open, which is why both men died rather than ejecting. That last claim rests on him alone.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>He is blunter still about the training. He says he was certified as an instructor pilot before he was ready, protested and was ignored, and that Eritrean pilots went into combat without the fundamentals and without the hours.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Three things everybody repeats that are not true<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>That an Ethiopian woman scored the first female jet-to-jet kill in history.<\/strong> The story is vivid: Capt. Aster Tolossa intercepts a MiG-29UB, recognises the voice of her own former instructor, warns him, and shoots when he refuses to land. It is everywhere. Cooper published it in 2004 &mdash; and then established in 2018 that the MiG-29UB said to have been destroyed, ERAF 502, survived the war undamaged. Cooper retracted his own story. The internet did not notice.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>That the Eritrean air force commander was shot down.<\/strong> The rumour that the pilot lost on 25 February was Brig. Gen. Habtezion Hadgu appears in several accounts, always flagged as rumour and always repeated anyway. Habtezion survived the war and remained in command until January 2003, when he was arrested. He has been held incommunicado ever since, for over twenty years. His daughter still campaigns for news of him.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>That the score was four or five to nil.<\/strong> The higher numbers come from Cooper\u2019s earlier work and from a Usenet posting. His own later revision gives two shot down and one MiG-29UB damaged. Russian historian Mikhail Zhirokhov gives three plus one written off. A March 1999 double kill appears in one account, is described as inconclusive in another, and is dropped entirely from the most recent. Two are solid. The rest are claims.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>What is not contested: <strong>no Su-27 was lost to enemy action<\/strong>. The only Flanker destroyed in the whole affair crashed at Debre Zeit on 6 January 1999 during a display for the Ethiopian president, flown by a Russian instructor who ejected. His Ethiopian back-seater was killed.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">The missiles that did nothing<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>Here is the part that should interest anyone who thinks modern air combat is decided at a hundred kilometres.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Both sides had radar-guided R-27s. Both sides fired them, repeatedly, at range. Cooper puts the expenditure at up to 24 missiles. The number that hit anything, by Zhirokhov\u2019s reckoning, was zero.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f8f9fa;border-left:4px solid #d32f2f;padding:20px 22px;margin:18px 0 24px;font-size:16px;line-height:1.7\"><em>&ldquo;Interestingly, not a single R-27 fired by the Ethiopians or the Eritreans found its target.&rdquo;<\/em><div style=\"margin-top:10px;font-size:14px;color:#555\"><strong>Mikhail Zhirokhov<\/strong> &mdash; <em>War in the Air on the Horn of Africa<\/em>, 2004, translated from the Russian<\/div><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>Cooper reached the same conclusion from the other end: with one exception, every kill was scored by the R-73, the short-range infrared missile, in a close-in turning fight. The exception was a single R-27 in May 2000 that proximity-fuzed near a MiG-29 rather than hitting it, doing enough damage that the aircraft crashed on landing at Asmara.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f8f9fa;border-left:4px solid #1565c0;padding:20px 22px;margin:18px 0 24px;font-size:16px;line-height:1.7\"><em>&ldquo;It seems that this type so far has a worse combat record than even US Vietnam-era AIM-7Es or AIM-7Fs.&rdquo;<\/em><div style=\"margin-top:10px;font-size:14px;color:#555\"><strong>Tom Cooper and Jonathan Kyzer<\/strong> &mdash; <em>Air War between Ethiopia and Eritrea, 1998&ndash;2000<\/em>, ACIG, 2003<\/div><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\" style=\"margin:0 0 24px;width:100%\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" width=\"1024\" src=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2026\/09\/mig-29-launching-r-73-missile-2.jpg\" alt=\"An R-73 short-range air-to-air missile leaving the rail of a MiG-29\" style=\"width:100%;height:auto;max-width:100%;display:block\"><figcaption style=\"font-size:13px;color:#777;text-align:center;margin-top:6px;font-style:italic\">An R-73 leaving the rail. The short-range infrared missile did essentially all the killing in this war; the long-range radar-guided R-27 did almost none. Photo: Wikimedia Commons<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>There is a second surprise buried in that. Cooper notes that most, if not all, of the Eritrean MiG-29s went down in close-quarters turning fights &mdash; which is precisely where the smaller, lighter Fulcrum was supposed to have the advantage over the larger Flanker.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>So why did the Su-27 win? Not, on this evidence, because of its radar or its missiles. The explanations that survive are mundane: fuel, speed and training. The MiG-29\u2019s notoriously short legs forced the Eritreans to break off and run for home, and the Flanker\u2019s speed let it run them down from behind. And the Ethiopian pilots had been through a serious programme at Debre Zeit under Russian instruction, some of them at the Krasnodar academy, followed by intensive flying through 1999. The Eritreans had been through a crash course.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Whose hands were on the sticks<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>The most-repeated claim about this war is that the Flankers were flown by Russian mercenaries. SIPRI\u2019s register carries the note &ldquo;flown by Russian pilots&rdquo; against the Ethiopian Su-27 batch, and Cooper\u2019s 2003 account says the 25 February engagement was fought by Russians.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Cooper\u2019s own 2018 work records that Ethiopian sources, including veterans of that air war, strongly dispute it, and names an Ethiopian pilot for both kills. Russian instructors, advisers and technicians were unquestionably present in large numbers &mdash; roughly 300 accompanied the Su-27s &mdash; and Ukrainians served on the Eritrean side. Whether a Russian ever pulled a trigger is not established.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Eritrea\u2019s president made his own position clear, announcing that any foreign mercenary shot down over Eritrea would be shot on capture.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%;height:0;overflow:hidden;margin:24px 0\"><iframe class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/2WtlUL51hGk\" style=\"position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;border:0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>The first part of Showtime112&rsquo;s two-part account of the air war, the most thorough popular treatment available.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%;height:0;overflow:hidden;margin:24px 0\"><iframe class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/LJFzOtQIUTk\" style=\"position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;border:0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>Part two, covering the February 1999 engagements and the 2000 offensive.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">What is left of it<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>The war ended in June 2000 with a ceasefire and, in December, a peace agreement. Roughly a hundred thousand people had died, most of them on the ground, over a border that still was not properly settled.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>In Mekelle a woman opened a bar and called it Bar SU, after the aircraft that beat the Eritreans. Airport security guards there took to carrying key fobs made from shapeless scraps of metal, which they told visitors came from an Eritrean MiG-29. Both Cooper and Zhirokhov report this detail independently, which is more corroboration than most of the kill claims have.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Two young Eritrean pilots are confirmed dead, sent one after the other into the same piece of sky. The pilot who survived spent fifteen years in prison and had to break out of it to be able to say so. And the only time the Flanker and the Fulcrum ever fought, the expensive radar missiles both had been built around missed every single time.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><em>Sources: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database and UN arms embargo case study (Wezeman, 2007); Tom Cooper and Adrien Fontanellaz, Ethiopian-Eritrean Wars Volume 2 (Helion, 2018); Kyzer and Cooper, ACIG, 2003; Mikhail Zhirokhov, Ugolok Neba, 2004; Assenna and VOA interviews with Dejen Ande Hishel; Plaut and Gilkes, Chatham House, 1999.<\/em><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<style>.mfq{margin:34px 0 8px}.mfq h2{font:26px\/1.3 \"Gilroy semiBold\",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:#0d1117;padding-top:22px;margin:0 0 6px}.mfq .qa details{border-top:1px solid #5C91FF;margin:0;padding:0}.mfq .qa details:last-of-type{border-bottom:1px solid #e2e7ee}.mfq .qa summary{cursor:pointer;list-style:none;display:flex;justify-content:space-between;align-items:center;gap:16px;padding:22px 26px;font:18px\/1.7 \"Gilroy semiBold\",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:#0d1117}.mfq .qa summary::-webkit-details-marker{display:none}.mfq .qa summary::after{content:\"+\";font:24px Helvetica,sans-serif;color:#3568e0;flex:0 0 auto}.mfq .qa details[open] summary::after{content:\"\\2013\"}.mfq .qa details:hover summary{color:#3568e0}.mfq .qa .a{font:16px\/1.7 \"Gilroy regular\",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:#454e5e;padding:0 26px 24px}.mfq .qa .a a{color:#3568e0}@media(max-width:680px){.mfq .qa summary{padding:18px 14px;font-size:17px}.mfq .qa .a{padding:0 14px 20px}}<\/style>\r\n\r\n\r\n<section class=\"mfq\"><h2>Frequently Asked Questions<\/h2><div class=\"qa\"><details open><summary>Did the Su-27 and MiG-29 ever fight each other?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Once. During the Eritrean-Ethiopian War, Ethiopian Su-27s engaged Eritrean MiG-29s in February 1999 and again in May 2000. It is the only head-to-head combat record between the two types, which is why it is cited so often despite being poorly documented.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>How many MiG-29s did Ethiopian Su-27s shoot down?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Two are solidly established, both in late February 1999, with the Eritrean pilots named as Yonas Misghinna and Samuel Girmay. Claims run as high as five. The most recent scholarly account gives two shot down plus one MiG-29UB damaged. No Su-27 was lost to enemy action.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>Who won the Ethiopia-Eritrea air war?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Ethiopia. Its Su-27s gained and held air superiority, and no Flanker was shot down by an Eritrean aircraft. Most Ethiopian aircraft losses came from Eritrean ground-based air defences rather than from fighters, and those losses were mainly older MiG-21s, MiG-23s and helicopters.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>Why did the Su-27 beat the MiG-29 in these fights?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Not through radar or long-range missiles, which failed on both sides. The surviving explanations are the MiG-29 short fuel endurance, which forced Eritrean pilots to disengage and run, the Su-27 speed advantage in running them down, and a large disparity in pilot training and flying hours.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>How did the R-27 missile perform in this war?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Very badly. Both sides fired radar-guided R-27s at range, by one estimate up to 24 of them, and the Russian historian Mikhail Zhirokhov concluded that not one found its target. With a single exception, every kill was made with the short-range infrared R-73 in a close-in turning fight.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>Did Russian pilots fly combat missions in the war?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">It is alleged but not established. SIPRI records a note that the Ethiopian Su-27s were flown by Russian pilots, and some accounts credit Russians with the February 1999 kills. Tom Cooper later recorded that Ethiopian veterans strongly dispute this and named an Ethiopian pilot instead.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>Is the story of the first female fighter pilot kill true?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">No. The widely repeated account of Ethiopian Capt. Aster Tolossa downing a MiG-29UB in February 1999 was published in 2004 and later contradicted by the same author, who established that the aircraft said to have been destroyed survived the war undamaged.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>Can civilians fly a MiG-29 or a Su-27?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">MiG-29 flights have been genuinely available to civilians, including supersonic and edge-of-space sorties, and other fast jets such as the L-39 Albatros and Hawker Hunter fly regularly. MiGFlug arranges them; current types, locations and prices are on the <a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/flights-prices\/\">flights and prices page<\/a>.<\/div><\/details><\/div><\/section>\r\n\r\n\r\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@type\":\"FAQPage\",\"mainEntity\":[{\"@type\":\"Question\",\"name\":\"Did the Su-27 and MiG-29 ever fight each other?\",\"acceptedAnswer\":{\"@type\":\"Answer\",\"text\":\"Once. During the Eritrean-Ethiopian War, Ethiopian Su-27s engaged Eritrean MiG-29s in February 1999 and again in May 2000. It is the only head-to-head combat record between the two types, which is why it is cited so often despite being poorly documented.\"}},{\"@type\":\"Question\",\"name\":\"How many MiG-29s did Ethiopian Su-27s shoot down?\",\"acceptedAnswer\":{\"@type\":\"Answer\",\"text\":\"Two are solidly established, both in late February 1999, with the Eritrean pilots named as Yonas Misghinna and Samuel Girmay. Claims run as high as five. The most recent scholarly account gives two shot down plus one MiG-29UB damaged. No Su-27 was lost to enemy action.\"}},{\"@type\":\"Question\",\"name\":\"Who won the Ethiopia-Eritrea air war?\",\"acceptedAnswer\":{\"@type\":\"Answer\",\"text\":\"Ethiopia. Its Su-27s gained and held air superiority, and no Flanker was shot down by an Eritrean aircraft. 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MiGFlug arranges them; current types, locations and prices are on the flights and prices page.\"}}]}<\/script><div style=\"background:#f0f4ff;border-left:4px solid #5C91FF;padding:16px 20px;margin:32px 0 8px\"><p style=\"margin:0 0 8px;font-weight:600;color:#333\">Related Posts<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/mcdonnell-douglas-f-15-vs-sukhoi-su-27\/\">McDonnell Douglas F-15 vs Sukhoi Su-27<\/a><\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/iai-kfir-nesher-mirage-j79-israeli-fighter-history\/\">IAI Kfir: The Mirage Israel Rebuilt Around an American Engine<\/a><\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/aermacchi-mb-339-fifty-years-first-flight-1976\/\">Aermacchi MB-339: Fifty Years Since the First Flight<\/a><\/p><\/div>\r\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ethiopia and Eritrea bought Flankers and Fulcrums from the same country within months of each other, then flew them at each other over Badme. Most of what you have read about it is wrong.<\/p>","protected":false},"author":23,"featured_media":22992986,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"editor_notices":[],"footnotes":""},"categories":[666,664],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-22993635","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-history-and-legends","category-military-aviation"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Su-27 vs MiG-29: The Only War They Fought | MiGFlug<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Ethiopia and Eritrea flew Flankers and Fulcrums at each other in 1999. 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