{"id":23456769,"date":"2026-09-19T14:29:51","date_gmt":"2026-09-19T12:29:51","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/cockpit-crew-five-to-two-navigator-flight-engineer-glass-nose\/"},"modified":"2026-09-19T14:30:25","modified_gmt":"2026-09-19T12:30:25","slug":"cockpit-crew-five-to-two-navigator-flight-engineer-glass-nose","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/fr\/cockpit-crew-five-to-two-navigator-flight-engineer-glass-nose\/","title":{"rendered":"Navigators and Flight Engineers: How Cockpits Went From Five to Two"},"content":{"rendered":"<style>.et_pb_title_container h1.entry-title { padding-top: 40px !important; }<\/style>\r\n\r\n<p>Somewhere over Russia today, a man is lying on his stomach in the nose of a jet transport, looking straight down at the ground through a wall of flat glass panes, with nothing between him and the landscape but a few millimetres of window.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>He is a navigator. His job title has been extinct in Western airline flying for half a century. The aircraft he is sitting in is still being built.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Meanwhile, a few thousand kilometres west, two people are flying a 300-tonne airliner across the Atlantic, and there is nobody behind them at all.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f8f9fa;border:1px solid #e2e7ee;padding:20px 24px;margin:26px 0\"><p style=\"margin:0 0 10px;font-weight:700;font-size:18px;color:#0d1117\">Quick Facts<\/p><ul style=\"margin:0;padding-left:20px;font-size:15px;line-height:1.8;color:#454e5e\"><li><strong>The five seats:<\/strong> captain, first officer, flight engineer, navigator, radio operator<\/li><li><strong>First to go:<\/strong> the radio operator, phased out through the 1950s as pilots took over radio duties<\/li><li><strong>Then the navigator:<\/strong> killed by Doppler radar in the 1960s and inertial navigation from 1970<\/li><li><strong>Last to go:<\/strong> the flight engineer. The decisive moment was the US President&rsquo;s Task Force on Aircraft Crew Complement, which reported on 2 July 1981<\/li><li><strong>Il-76 crew:<\/strong> five &mdash; two pilots, flight engineer, navigator and radio operator, with the navigator on the lower deck in the glazed nose<\/li><li><strong>An-12 crew:<\/strong> five, with a bombsight in the glazed nose used mostly for directing parachute drops<\/li><li><strong>Still in production with a glass nose:<\/strong> the Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A<\/li><\/ul><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Five Seats, Five Jobs<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>The classic long-haul flight deck had five people in it, and each one existed because a specific job could not yet be done by a machine.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>The captain and first officer<\/strong> flew the aeroplane. That part has not changed.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>The flight engineer<\/strong> is the oldest of the three extra seats. The role began as the flight mechanic on 1930s flying boats, the Sikorsky S-42, the Martin M-130, the Boeing 314. The Dornier Do X had an engineer\u2019s station simply to manage twelve engines. The first American military aircraft with a dedicated flight engineer position was the Consolidated PBY Catalina, in naval service from 1936. In the RAF the air engineer arrived with the four-engined bombers, and the first Allied wartime operation involving them was a Short Stirling raid in February 1941. The job was to set and adjust engine power, manage fuel, run pressurisation, hydraulics, electrics, anti-icing and fire protection, compute weight and balance, and diagnose or fix faults in flight.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>The navigator<\/strong> worked out where the aircraft actually was, which over an ocean was a genuinely hard problem.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>The radio operator<\/strong> ran long-range HF communications, largely in Morse, passing position reports and collecting weather.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser carried all five. So, on BOAC\u2019s long-haul routes, did the Bristol Britannia and the Douglas DC-7.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">The Radio Operator Went First<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f8f9fa;border-left:4px solid #1565c0;padding:20px 22px;margin:18px 0 24px;font-size:16px;line-height:1.7;display:flex;gap:20px;align-items:flex-start\"><div><em>&ldquo;The radio operator had the tiresome task of conducting all HF (long-range) transmissions and collecting weather and other information for the Captain. In the Fifties, this crew position was being phased out as the pilots took over all radio duties.&rdquo;<\/em><div style=\"margin-top:10px;font-size:14px;color:#555\"><strong>Ian Frow<\/strong> &mdash; BOAC pilot from 1958, writing for BALPA, December 2016<\/div><\/div><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>The technology that did it was not glamorous. VHF coverage spread through the 1950s. More importantly, SELCAL arrived in civil aviation in 1957: a ground station transmits a coded tone burst, and only the aircraft with that code hears a chime. Suddenly nobody had to sit with headphones on listening to static across an ocean for eight hours. ARINC became the SELCAL registrar in 1958 and held the role until 2006.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>ACARS followed in July 1978, with Piedmont Airlines as launch customer, turning routine company messages into data. By the time the first jets were in widespread service, the radio operator\u2019s seat was already being taken out.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Then the Navigator<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>Celestial navigation is beautiful and desperately slow. The RAF formally endorsed astro-navigation in November 1937, and a dedicated bubble sextant was designed in 1939. Sightings were taken through an astrodome, a transparent blister in the roof, until pressurised aircraft made a dome a structural liability and the periscopic sextant replaced it from the late 1940s. Drift was measured with a drift meter, a device Harold Gatty designed in 1930 and used with Wiley Post on the round-the-world flight of the Winnie Mae in 1931.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Ian Frow, who flew for BOAC from 1958, describes the arithmetic problem plainly: a three-star fix meant three two-minute sightings plus more than ten minutes of calculation. By the time the navigator had plotted it, the position was fifteen minutes old, and the aircraft was 200 kilometres further on.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\" style=\"margin:0 0 24px;width:100%\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" width=\"1024\" src=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2026\/09\/tupolev-tu-134-navigator-station-glass-nose-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"The navigator station in the glazed nose cone of Malev Tupolev Tu-134 HA-LBE at Aeropark Hungary\" style=\"width:100%;height:auto;max-width:100%;display:block\"><figcaption style=\"font-size:13px;color:#777;text-align:center;margin-top:6px;font-style:italic\">The navigator\u2019s station in the glass nose of a Mal&eacute;v Tu-134, preserved at Aeropark in Hungary. This is an airliner. (Photo: Lentokonefani, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>What killed the job was not one invention but three in sequence. Doppler navigation radar reached BOAC\u2019s 707s and VC10s in the later 1960s and made the specialist redundant on many routes; TWA furloughed 37 of its 55 navigators in 1962 when Doppler arrived. Then the Boeing 747, the first airliner designed from the outset around inertial navigation, entered service in 1970 with the Delco Carousel IV built by AC Electronics in Milwaukee.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Even then the changeover was cautious. BOAC took delivery of its first 747 in April 1970 and delayed entering service for nearly a year over concerns about the INS, assigning a navigator instructor to the first 747 course as a fallback. Concorde, by contrast, never carried a navigator at all: two pilots and a flight engineer, navigating on a triple inertial suite.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>The last piece was satellite navigation. GPS reached initial operational capability in December 1993 and full operational capability on 27 April 1995. The Omega VLF navigation system, which had served as the long-range fallback, shut down its transmitters at 0300Z on 30 September 1997, explicitly because GPS had taken over.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">The Flight Engineer Held Out Longest<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>The flight engineer survived into the 1980s because managing engines and systems genuinely was a full-time job. FAA type certificates for the 707, 727, early 747, DC-8, DC-10, L-1011 and early A300 all required one. Smaller twinjets, the DC-9, 737, BAC 1-11 and Caravelle, never did.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\" style=\"margin:0 0 24px;width:100%\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" width=\"1024\" src=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2026\/09\/concorde-g-boad-flight-engineer-station-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"The flight engineer station of Concorde G-BOAD, preserved at the Intrepid Museum\" style=\"width:100%;height:auto;max-width:100%;display:block\"><figcaption style=\"font-size:13px;color:#777;text-align:center;margin-top:6px;font-style:italic\">The flight engineer\u2019s station on Concorde G-BOAD, now at the Intrepid Museum in New York. Concorde flew with two pilots and a flight engineer and no navigator. (Photo: wctaiwan, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>What ended it was a political fight, not a technical one. In February 1981 President Reagan named a three-man task force to settle whether the new generation of airliners could be flown by two people, explicitly to head off a threatened pilots\u2019 strike. It was chaired by Dr John L. McLucas, a former FAA Administrator, with NASA Ames research test pilot Fred J. Drinkwater III and Lt Gen Howard W. Leaf of the USAF. They reported to the President on 2 July 1981.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f8f9fa;border-left:4px solid #1565c0;padding:20px 22px;margin:18px 0 24px;font-size:16px;line-height:1.7;display:flex;gap:20px;align-items:flex-start\"><div><em>&ldquo;As designed, the Boeing 757 and 767 aircraft and the A-310 aircraft being developed by the European consortium, Airbus Industrie, potentially can be operated safely by a crew of two. The addition of a third crew member would not be justified in the interest of safety.&rdquo;<\/em><div style=\"margin-top:10px;font-size:14px;color:#555\"><strong>President\u2019s Task Force on Aircraft Crew Complement<\/strong> &mdash; Report to the President of the United States, 2 July 1981<\/div><\/div><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>The consequences were immediate and physical. Roughly 30 Boeing 767s were already on the production line with flight engineer stations built in, because launch customer United had insisted on them. Boeing finished those aircraft and then modified them back to two-crew on the line before delivery. No United or American 767 was ever handed over with a flight engineer\u2019s seat.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>One airline in the world took three-crew 767s: Ansett Australia, at the insistence of the Australian flight engineers\u2019 union. They entered service in June 1983 and were converted to standard two-crew configuration in 1998.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>The enabling technology arrived alongside the politics. EICAS, Boeing\u2019s engine indication and crew alerting system, entered service on the 767 on 8 September 1982. Airbus certified ECAM on the A310 in March 1983. The first civil FADEC was the Pratt &amp; Whitney PW2037 for the Boeing 757, certified in 1984.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%;height:0;overflow:hidden;margin:24px 0\"><iframe class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/NidSMYSNG50\" style=\"position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;border:0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>A wartime training film on the B-29 flight engineer\u2019s job, which gives a clear sense of how much of an aircraft used to be operated by hand.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Production of the types that carried them wound down: the 727 in September 1984, the DC-10 in December 1988, the 747-200 in 1991. In service they lasted longer. FedEx retired its last 727, N481FE, into Memphis on 21 June 2013. Concorde\u2019s final commercial passenger flight was on 24 October 2003.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f8f9fa;border-left:4px solid #5C91FF;padding:20px 22px;margin:18px 0 24px;font-size:16px;line-height:1.7;display:flex;gap:20px;align-items:flex-start\"><div><em>&ldquo;Everybody&rsquo;s heard of pilots. No one&rsquo;s ever heard of a flight engineer. And even people who&rsquo;ve heard of a flight engineer are not really quite sure what they are or what they do. They think the guy sitting behind the pilots is probably the navigator or something.&rdquo;<\/em><div style=\"margin-top:10px;font-size:14px;color:#555\"><strong>Warren Hazelby<\/strong> &mdash; British Airways\u2019 last flight engineer, and the flight engineer on Concorde\u2019s final flight, speaking to CNN Travel, September 2024<\/div><\/div><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Meanwhile, in the East<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>Look head-on at an Ilyushin Il-76 and the difference is impossible to miss. Below the cockpit windows, where a Western freighter has a weather radar radome, there is a framed lattice of flat glass panes. Behind it, lying forward of and below the pilots, is the navigator.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\" style=\"margin:0 0 24px;width:100%\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" width=\"1024\" src=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2026\/09\/il-76m-navigator-cabin-interior-glass-nose.jpg\" alt=\"The navigator station inside the glazed nose of Ilyushin Il-76M CCCP-86047\" style=\"width:100%;height:auto;max-width:100%;display:block\"><figcaption style=\"font-size:13px;color:#777;text-align:center;margin-top:6px;font-style:italic\">Inside the navigator\u2019s cabin of an Il-76M. The seat faces forward into the glazing, with the optical sight aperture in the floor. (Photo: Aleksandr Markin, CC BY-SA 2.0, via Wikimedia Commons)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>The Il-76 flies with five: two pilots, a flight engineer, a navigator and a radio operator. Armed military variants add a manned tail turret with twin GSh-23 cannon in its own pressurised compartment, so those carry more. The navigator\u2019s station has its own hydraulically operated escape hatch with a slipstream deflector.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>The glazing is not decoration. It is there so the navigator can take map references visually and watch parachute cargo drops, and during paratroop operations the jumpmaster can observe through it as well. The Antonov An-12, also a five-crew aircraft, carries an actual bombsight in the same position, used mostly for directing airdrops.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%;height:0;overflow:hidden;margin:24px 0\"><iframe class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/VBc5b9aT3ug\" style=\"position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;border:0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>The view from the Il-76 navigator\u2019s glass nose during a low pass. There is no equivalent seat anywhere in Western aviation.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>The Tupolev Tu-95 carries six or seven depending on mission. The Tu-142 maritime version carries eleven to thirteen, and one of its pilots describes the division of labour better than any manual could.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"background:#f8f9fa;border-left:4px solid #5C91FF;padding:20px 22px;margin:18px 0 24px;font-size:16px;line-height:1.7;display:flex;gap:20px;align-items:flex-start\"><div><em>&ldquo;Navigation was done by the flight navigator who was seated in the nose of the aircraft at a lower deck. The Flight Signaller, again facing aft, behind the pilot in command did all the long distance communications. The check list was done by the flight gunner with challenge and response. He was seated at the tail, facing aft, and with no access to the rest of the aircraft. So you see almost everything was provided on a platter to the pilots.&rdquo;<\/em><div style=\"margin-top:10px;font-size:14px;color:#555\"><strong>Cdr Vinod Bhasin<\/strong> &mdash; Indian Navy (retd), Tupolev Tu-142M pilot, speaking to Hush-Kit, May 2021<\/div><\/div><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<div style=\"position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%;height:0;overflow:hidden;margin:24px 0\"><iframe class=\"skip-lazy\" data-no-lazy=\"1\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/BufLH2-6N-I\" style=\"position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;border:0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\r\n\r\n\r\n<p>An Antonov An-12 takeoff seen from the navigator\u2019s position.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Three Things People Get Wrong<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>The An-124 does not have a glass nose.<\/strong> It has an upward-hinging visor nose, which opens for drive-on loading. Its navigator sits on the flight deck with everyone else. The confusion is understandable, because the An-124 does carry a large crew including a navigator, two flight engineers and a radio operator, but the glazed bombardier-style station is not part of it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>The Ilyushin Il-62 does not have one either.<\/strong> It is a conventional radar-nosed long-haul jet, typically crewed by three to five depending on the route.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>The Tu-22M has a solid radar nose.<\/strong> The Tu-22M3 carries the Almaz PNA radar behind a contoured radome and flies with a crew of four. It is the earlier and quite different Tu-22 Blinder whose navigator sat low inside the fuselage on a downward-firing ejection seat.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Why the Two Sides Diverged<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>Glazed noses were never a Soviet invention. The Lancaster had one, so did the He 111 and the B-29. What differs is when each side stopped. The B-52, designed in the late 1940s, never had one. Neither did the C-130, the C-141 or the C-5.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Some of the reasons are documented and specific. Airdrop observation is written into descriptions of both the Il-76 and the An-12. Optical bomb aiming alongside radar is documented on the early Tu-22. And removing the position is expensive: deleting a glazed nose means redesigning the forward fuselage, the crew layout and the systems architecture, which is why the Il-76MD-90A, with new PS-90A-76 engines and updated avionics, still has the chin.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Other explanations get repeated constantly and are worth treating as conventional wisdom rather than fact: that vast Soviet airspace with patchy ground navigation aids kept visual and dead-reckoning methods necessary for longer, that rough-field operations rewarded direct visual assessment, and that a different certification philosophy made keeping a legacy nose cheaper than recertifying a redesign. All plausible. None tied in the sources to a specific requirement document.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>The most useful framing is structural. Aeroflot was not an airline in the Western sense; it was the Soviet Union\u2019s state aviation system, and its aircraft were designed for dual civil and military utility. Strong landing gear, austere-field capability, military-adjacent features. That is the honest answer to why an airliner had a bomb-aimer\u2019s window.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>The Tu-134 makes the point concretely. It was built with a glazed nose and a chin radar dome, and the Tu-134B later moved the radar into a conventional nose radome and deleted the glazing. But the Soviet Air Force also ordered dedicated navigator-training variants, the Tu-134Sh family, developed from 1969 and in production from 1971, with twelve student workstations in the cabin, training navigators and weapons officers for Tu-22 and later Tu-22M crews. A civil airframe, built with a bomber\u2019s nose, used to teach bombing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<h2 style=\"padding-top:22px\">Where They Still Work<\/h2>\r\n\r\n<p>Flight engineers have not vanished from Western aviation, only from airliners. The E-3 Sentry and E-6 Mercury, both 707 derivatives built until the line closed in 1991, still carry them, as do the C-5 Galaxy, the KC-10, the P-3 Orion and the C-130H. On the P-3, the E-3 and the E-6B the flight engineer starts and shuts down engines, including shutting them down in flight to save fuel on long sorties.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>In the United States the navigator rating did not disappear so much as get renamed: most operational navigators became Combat Systems Officers in 2009, with the rating fully retitled by 2011.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>In Russian service, all three roles survive intact on the Il-76, An-12, An-124, Tu-95MS, Tu-142 and Tu-22M3. But the trajectory is the same one the West travelled, just later. Wikipedia\u2019s Tu-154 entry puts it flatly: navigators are no longer being trained, and the profession is becoming obsolete as the oldest Soviet-era aircraft retire.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p>Which means that somewhere, at some point in the next decade or two, a man will climb down out of a glass nose for the last time, and a job that existed for a century will quietly stop existing. Nobody will film it. They never do.<\/p>\r\n\r\n<p style=\"font-style:italic;font-size:14px;color:#777\">Sources: Report of the President\u2019s Task Force on Aircraft Crew Complement, 2 July 1981 (DTIC ADA106889); BALPA; CNN Travel; Hush-Kit; Air &amp; Space \/ Smithsonian; airvectors.net; Pan Am Historical Foundation; ARINC and ASRI; gps.gov; Wikipedia.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<style>.mfq{margin:34px 0 8px}.mfq h2{font:26px\/1.3 \"Gilroy semiBold\",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:#0d1117;padding-top:22px;margin:0 0 6px}.mfq .qa details{border-top:1px solid #5C91FF;margin:0;padding:0}.mfq .qa details:last-of-type{border-bottom:1px solid #e2e7ee}.mfq .qa summary{cursor:pointer;list-style:none;display:flex;justify-content:space-between;align-items:center;gap:16px;padding:22px 26px;font:18px\/1.7 \"Gilroy semiBold\",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:#0d1117}.mfq .qa summary::-webkit-details-marker{display:none}.mfq .qa summary::after{content:\"+\";font:24px Helvetica,sans-serif;color:#3568e0;flex:0 0 auto}.mfq .qa details[open] summary::after{content:\"\\2013\"}.mfq .qa details:hover summary{color:#3568e0}.mfq .qa .a{font:16px\/1.7 \"Gilroy regular\",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:#454e5e;padding:0 26px 24px}.mfq .qa .a a{color:#3568e0}@media(max-width:680px){.mfq .qa summary{padding:18px 14px;font-size:17px}.mfq .qa .a{padding:0 14px 20px}}<\/style>\r\n\r\n\r\n<section class=\"mfq\"><h2>Frequently Asked Questions<\/h2><div class=\"qa\"><details open><summary>Why did airliners once need five crew members?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Because every job now done by a computer was then done by a person. The captain and first officer flew. The flight engineer managed engines, fuel, pressurisation, hydraulics and electrics from a side-facing panel. The navigator worked out where the aircraft was using celestial fixes and dead reckoning. The radio operator ran long-range HF communications in Morse.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>What killed the radio operator position?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Better radios and then automation. VHF coverage expanded through the 1950s and 1960s, and SELCAL, introduced into civil aviation in 1957, let a ground station ring a chime in one specific aircraft instead of requiring somebody to monitor HF continuously. ACARS followed in 1978. The position was largely gone from Western airliners by the mid-1960s.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>What did an airline navigator actually do?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Fixed the aircraft\u2019s position over oceans where there were no radio beacons. The main tool was celestial navigation using a sextant through an astrodome, later a periscopic sextant, combined with dead reckoning and a drift meter. A three-star fix took over ten minutes of calculation on top of three two-minute sightings, so the position it produced was already a quarter of an hour old.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>When did airlines stop carrying navigators?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Gradually, between roughly the early 1960s and the mid-1970s. Doppler navigation radar on Boeing 707s and VC10s made the specialist redundant on many routes; TWA furloughed 37 of its 55 navigators in 1962. The Boeing 747, which entered service in 1970 with Delco Carousel IV inertial navigation as standard, finished the job. There is no single documented last flight.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>What was the 1981 President\u2019s Task Force on Aircraft Crew Complement?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">A three-man panel named by President Reagan in February 1981 to settle whether new airliners could safely be flown by two pilots. It was chaired by Dr John L. McLucas, a former FAA Administrator, with NASA test pilot Fred J. Drinkwater III and Lt Gen Howard W. Leaf. It reported on 2 July 1981 that the DC-9-80, Boeing 757 and 767 and the Airbus A310 could all be operated safely by a crew of two.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>Did any Boeing 767 ever fly with a flight engineer?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Yes, but only with one airline. About 30 aircraft were already being built with flight engineer stations when two-crew operation was cleared in 1981, and Boeing converted them on the line before delivery. Only Ansett Australia took three-crew 767s, at the insistence of the Australian flight engineers\u2019 union. They entered service in June 1983 and were converted to standard two-crew in 1998.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>Why do Russian aircraft have a glass nose?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">Because the navigator sits there. On the Ilyushin Il-76 the glazing lets him take map references visually and watch parachute cargo drops, and during paratroop operations the jumpmaster can observe through it too. The Antonov An-12 carries a bombsight in the same position, used mostly for directing airdrops.<\/div><\/details><details><summary>Does the Antonov An-124 have a glass nose?<\/summary><div class=\"a\">No, and this is a common confusion. The An-124 has an upward-hinging visor nose for drive-on loading, not a glazed navigator station. Its navigator sits on the flight deck with the rest of the crew. The Ilyushin Il-62 does not have one either.<\/div><\/details><\/div><\/section>\r\n\r\n\r\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@type\":\"FAQPage\",\"mainEntity\":[{\"@type\":\"Question\",\"name\":\"Why did airliners once need five crew members?\",\"acceptedAnswer\":{\"@type\":\"Answer\",\"text\":\"Because every job now done by a computer was then done by a person. The captain and first officer flew. The flight engineer managed engines, fuel, pressurisation, hydraulics and electrics from a side-facing panel. The navigator worked out where the aircraft was using celestial fixes and dead reckoning. The radio operator ran long-range HF communications in Morse.\"}},{\"@type\":\"Question\",\"name\":\"What killed the radio operator position?\",\"acceptedAnswer\":{\"@type\":\"Answer\",\"text\":\"Better radios and then automation. 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McLucas, a former FAA Administrator, with NASA test pilot Fred J. Drinkwater III and Lt Gen Howard W. Leaf. It reported on 2 July 1981 that the DC-9-80, Boeing 757 and 767 and the Airbus A310 could all be operated safely by a crew of two.\"}},{\"@type\":\"Question\",\"name\":\"Did any Boeing 767 ever fly with a flight engineer?\",\"acceptedAnswer\":{\"@type\":\"Answer\",\"text\":\"Yes, but only with one airline. About 30 aircraft were already being built with flight engineer stations when two-crew operation was cleared in 1981, and Boeing converted them on the line before delivery. Only Ansett Australia took three-crew 767s, at the insistence of the Australian flight engineers\u2019 union. They entered service in June 1983 and were converted to standard two-crew in 1998.\"}},{\"@type\":\"Question\",\"name\":\"Why do Russian aircraft have a glass nose?\",\"acceptedAnswer\":{\"@type\":\"Answer\",\"text\":\"Because the navigator sits there. On the Ilyushin Il-76 the glazing lets him take map references visually and watch parachute cargo drops, and during paratroop operations the jumpmaster can observe through it too. The Antonov An-12 carries a bombsight in the same position, used mostly for directing airdrops.\"}},{\"@type\":\"Question\",\"name\":\"Does the Antonov An-124 have a glass nose?\",\"acceptedAnswer\":{\"@type\":\"Answer\",\"text\":\"No, and this is a common confusion. The An-124 has an upward-hinging visor nose for drive-on loading, not a glazed navigator station. Its navigator sits on the flight deck with the rest of the crew. The Ilyushin Il-62 does not have one either.\"}}]}<\/script><div style=\"background:#f0f4ff;border-left:4px solid #5C91FF;padding:16px 20px;margin:32px 0 8px\"><p style=\"margin:0 0 8px;font-weight:600;color:#333\">Related Posts<\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/afterburner\/tupolev-tu-104-soviet-first-jet-airliner-safety-record\/\">Tupolev Tu-104: The Soviet Union\u2019s First Jet Airliner<\/a><\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/aircraft\/tu-95-bear\/\">Tupolev Tu-95 Bear in the MiGFlug Aircraft Encyclopedia<\/a><\/p><p style=\"margin:4px 0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/aircraft\/b-29-superfortress\/\">B-29 Superfortress in the MiGFlug Aircraft Encyclopedia<\/a><\/p><\/div>\r\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Airliners once flew with five people on the flight deck. Three of those jobs no longer exist in the West, and one of them is still lying in a glass nose over Russia today.<\/p>","protected":false},"author":27,"featured_media":23456050,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"editor_notices":[],"footnotes":""},"categories":[665,666,664],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-23456769","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-aviation-world","category-history-and-legends","category-military-aviation"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Flight Engineer and Navigator: Five Crew to Two | MiGFlug<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"How the flight engineer, navigator and radio operator disappeared from the flight deck, and why Soviet designs kept a glazed navigator nose long after the West stopped.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" 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