{"id":2983,"date":"2015-11-17T14:16:45","date_gmt":"2015-11-17T14:16:45","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.migflug.com\/jetflights\/?p=2983"},"modified":"2018-11-15T15:30:39","modified_gmt":"2018-11-15T14:30:39","slug":"final-interview-with-erich-hartmann","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/final-interview-with-erich-hartmann\/","title":{"rendered":"Final Interview with Erich Hartmann"},"content":{"rendered":"<h2><strong>The last Interview with Erich Hartmann<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>Of all the fighter aces in history, the first name who usually comes to mind is the &#8220;Red Baron&#8221; and Erich &#8220;Bubi&#8221; Hartmann. Therefore those two are top in our <a href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/best-fighter-pilots-of-all-time\/\">best fighter pilots in history ranking.<\/a><\/p>\n<p>If you are not familiar with the best fighter pilot ever &#8211; you best start with this video:<\/p>\n<p><iframe hcb-fetch-image-from=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/6WExpN8nW7c\" width=\"1080\" height=\"810\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/6WExpN8nW7c?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>His 352 confirmed kills will probably stand forever as the benchmark of success in aerial warfare. However, Erich\u2019s war in the air became a footnote to his life following the decade of Soviet imprisonment he experienced following the war. In his own words, Hartmann discussed his life, career, passions and survival in a world few have seen and even fewer survived.<\/p>\n<p>In his last formal interview, Erich Hartmann discussed specific facts that he had usually avoided in the past. This candid insight displays the humanity of the man himself as opposed to simply the warrior of legend, and provides an insight into the character of arguably the greatest fighter pilot who has ever and probably will ever, fight in hostile skies.<\/p>\n<h2>Hartmann gave this final interview before he died in 1993.<\/h2>\n<p><img data-opt-id=1180213319  fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-2798 alignright\" src=\"https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:auto\/h:auto\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/10\/Fighter-Aces-Erich-Hartmann.jpg\" alt=\"Erich Hartmann\" width=\"200\" height=\"288\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Q: Erich, when and where were you born?<\/p>\n<p>A: I was born on 19 April 1922 in Weissach. This is near Wuerttemberg.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was your family like?<\/p>\n<p>A: My father was a respected physician who had been a doctor in the Army in the\u00a0First War, and my mother was a licensed pilot. My brother later became a\u00a0doctor also.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Tell about your youth in China.<\/p>\n<p>A: My father\u2019s cousin was a diplomat there, and he convinced the father to move us\u00a0to China since Germany was not exactly the best place to be from an economic perspective. We\u00a0lived in Changsha province, and I was young and Alfred was even younger,\u00a0but I barely remember any of it. Father had gone ahead and we followed.\u00a0Finally, things became bad for foreigners and father sent us home. We\u00a0relocated in Stuttgart and father came back later. This was where I lived until\u00a0the war.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What made you want to become a pilot?<\/p>\n<p>A: Probably the same reason as most boys; the glory of the aces in the Great War,\u00a0as well as the fact that my mother was a licensed pilot. Mother used to take us\u00a0up and teach us things. That was perhaps the greatest factor. I knew I wanted\u00a0to fly. I became a licensed glider pilot at fourteen, and flew as often as I could\u00a0I became an instructor at age fifteen in the Hitler Youth. Alfred became a\u00a0Stuka gunner and was captured in Tunisia. That was probably lucky for him\u00a0and saved his life. My father was not pleased that I wanted to be a pilot, he\u00a0wanted us to follow him in medicine, and this was also a dream that I had, but\u00a0it would not be.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_3670\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><img data-opt-id=1125528898  fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-3670\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-3670\" src=\"https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:300\/h:196\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/11\/Erich-Hartmann-1.jpg\" alt=\"Erich &quot;Bubi&quot; Hartmann\" width=\"300\" height=\"196\" srcset=\"https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:300\/h:196\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/11\/Erich-Hartmann-1.jpg 300w, https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:768\/h:502\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/11\/Erich-Hartmann-1.jpg 768w, https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:1024\/h:669\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/11\/Erich-Hartmann-1.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-3670\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Erich &#8220;Bubi&#8221; Hartmann<\/p><\/div>\n<p>Q: When did you join the Luftwaffe?<\/p>\n<p>A: I started military flight training in October 1940 in East Prussia. This lasted\u00a0until January 1942 when I went to Zerbst-Anhalt. I graduated as a leutnant in\u00a0March 1942. Later I went to advanced aerial gunnery school, where I got into\u00a0a little trouble. I was showing off, buzzing the airfield and was sentenced to house arrest. Ironically my roommate flew the same aircraft I had been in and it developed a technical problem, and he was killed in the crash. That was ironic. I arrived in Russia and reported to JG-52 in just before the winter, after a slight mishap.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Was that when you crashed a Stuka?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, I would not say crashed, because I never got off the ground. We were\u00a0supposed to fly them to Mariupol, but when I started the Stuka I realized that it\u00a0had no brakes, and it reacted differently from a Messerschmitt 109. I crashed into the operations shack, and another man flipped his Ju-87 up over on its nose. They decided to send us in a Ju-52 since it was safer for us and the aircraft.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Was this when you first met Dieter Hrabak?<\/p>\n<p>A: Yes, who has been a good friend over the years, as you know. Dieter was the\u00a0first person to tell me to talk to you since he and the others trust you. I like\u00a0you also. Dieter was a very understanding yet disciplined commander, and his\u00a0experience showed. He taught us how not just to fly and fight, but how to\u00a0work as a team and stay alive. That was his greatest gift. He was very open to\u00a0discussing his own mistakes, and how he learned from them, hoping we would\u00a0learn also. Hrabak assigned me to 7\/III\/JG-52 under Major Hubertus von\u00a0Bonin, an old eagle from the Spanish Civil War and Battle of Britain. We\u00a0learned a lot from him also. My first mission was on 14 October 1942.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Your first mission was less than spectacular. What happened?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, Rossmann and I were in our flight, and Rossmann radioed that he\u00a0spotted ten enemy aircraft below us. We were at 12,000 feet and the enemy\u00a0was far below us. I could see nothing but followed Rossmann down, then we\u00a0came on them. I knew that I had to get my first kill, so I went full throttle and\u00a0left Rossmann to shoot at a plane. My shots missed and I almost collided into\u00a0him and had to pull up. Suddenly I was surrounded by the Soviets and I\u00a0headed for low cloud cover to escape. All along Rossmann kept talking to me,\u00a0and I had a low fuel warning. Then the engine went dead and I bellied in, \u00a0destroying my fighter. I knew I was in trouble. I had violated every\u00a0commandment a fighter pilot lives by, and I expected to be thrown out.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was your fate?<\/p>\n<p>A: I was sentenced by von Bonin to three days of working with the ground crews.\u00a0It gave me time to think about what I had done. What I learned from\u00a0Rossmann and later Krupinski I later taught to new pilots when I became a\u00a0leader.<\/p>\n<p>Q: When did you score your first kill?<\/p>\n<p>A: That was a day I will never forget, 5 November 1942, a Shturmovik IL-2,\u00a0which was the toughest aircraft to bring down because of the heavy armour\u00a0plate. You had to shoot out the oil cooler underneath, otherwise, it would not\u00a0go down. That was also the day of my second forced landing since I had flown\u00a0into the debris of my kill. I learned two things that day; get in close and shoot\u00a0and break away immediately after scoring the kill. The next kill came in\u00a0February the following year. This was when Krupinski came to Taman and\u00a0was my new squadron leader.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Walter told me about the day he arrived, and his episode with the two fighters.\u00a0What do you remember?<\/p>\n<p>A: He came in, introduced himself, demanded a plane, went up, was hot down,\u00a0and brought back by car. He then took another, scored two kills and returned,\u00a0they wanted dinner. The whole event was treated as casually as a card game.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:auto\/h:auto\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/11\/erich_hartmann.jpg\"><img data-opt-id=192944542  data-opt-src=\"https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:auto\/h:auto\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/11\/erich_hartmann.jpg\"  decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-2986\" src=\"data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20viewBox%3D%220%200%20100%%20100%%22%20width%3D%22100%%22%20height%3D%22100%%22%20xmlns%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%22%3E%3Crect%20width%3D%22100%%22%20height%3D%22100%%22%20fill%3D%22transparent%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fsvg%3E\" alt=\"erich_hartmann\" width=\"270\" height=\"382\" old-srcset=\"https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:270\/h:382\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/11\/erich_hartmann.jpg 270w, https:\/\/ml5psubhxdln.i.optimole.com\/w:212\/h:300\/q:mauto\/ig:avif\/https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2015\/11\/erich_hartmann.jpg 212w\" \/><\/a>Q: How did you meet Gunther Rall?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, I know that Gunther had to have told you about this. He replaced von\u00a0Bonin as Gruppenkommandeur and we were introduced. That was the\u00a0beginning. In August 1943 Rall made me commander of the 9th squadron,\u00a0which had been Herman Graf\u2019s command.<\/p>\n<p>Q: You flew with Krupinski as his wingman often. What was that like, and how\u00a0different was it from flying with Rossmann?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, the partnership was a little uneasy at first, but we found that we worked\u00a0well together. We both had strengths and weaknesses and managed to\u00a0overcome these problems. It worked out well. Besides, I had to make sure that\u00a0he came home due to his many girlfriends always waiting on him to come\u00a0down. I won the Iron Cross 2nd Class while flying with \u2018Krupi\u2019. The one thing\u00a0I learned from him was that the worst thing to do was to lose a wingman. Kills\u00a0were less important than survival. I only lost one wingman, Gunther Capito, a\u00a0former bomber pilot, but this was due to his inexperience with fighters, but he\u00a0survived.<\/p>\n<p>Q: How many kills did you have before you won the Knight\u2019s Cross?<\/p>\n<p>A: I had scored 148 kills by 29 October 1943. My award was sort of late I guess.\u00a0There were many men who had more than fifty kills who did not receive the\u00a0Knight\u2019s Cross, which I think was unfair. I also thought it unfair that men like\u00a0Rall, Barkhorn, Kittel, Baer and Rudorffer did not receive higher decorations.\u00a0They deserved them.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Tell about your first meeting with Krupinski. I have heard his version from\u00a0Walter, but I would like your version.<\/p>\n<p>A: I was being addressed by my new Wing Commander (Hrabak) when a fighter\u00a0came in smoking, and suddenly landed, flipped over and exploded. We knew\u00a0the pilot was dead. One of the men said that \u2018it is Krupinski\u2019, and out of the\u00a0blinding smoke this man walked out of the wreckage with a burned uniform,\u00a0but no other damage. He was smiling and complained about the flak over the\u00a0Caucasus, but without any real surprise on his face. This was my first meeting\u00a0with \u201cThe Count.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Q: Who were you first assigned to as wingman?<\/p>\n<p>A: Feldwebel Eduard \u2018Paule\u2019 Rossmann, who took me under his wing.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Was it typical that an officer would be assigned to a non-commissioned officer?<\/p>\n<p>A: It was for us since he was a seasoned combat veteran. Rank meant little over\u00a0experience, and that was why we were so successful I think.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Who was your best friend during those days?<\/p>\n<p>A: There were so many, most of whom are still alive, but my closest relationship\u00a0was with Heinz Mertens, my crew chief. You rely upon your wingmen to\u00a0cover you in the air, and your team mates in aerial battle, but the man who\u00a0keeps your machine flying and safe is the most important man you know. We\u00a0became best of friends, and none of my success would have been possible if\u00a0not for Mertens.<\/p>\n<p>Q: The bond you two had is also legendary. Why the closeness?<\/p>\n<p>A: I can\u2019t explain it. When I went missing on the mission where I was captured\u00a0and escaped, Mertens had taken a rifle and went looking for me. He would not\u00a0give up. That is a loyalty you never find outside the military.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Describe that time you were captured.<\/p>\n<p>A: The Russians were attacking in our area and Hrabak gave us our orders. This\u00a0was in August 1943, and our mission was to support the Stukas of Hans-Ulrich\u00a0Ruedel in a counterattack. Then things changed. The Red Air Force was\u00a0bombing German ground positions in support of their offensive, so my flight\u00a0of eight fighters located and attacked the enemy, about forty Laggs and Yaks\u00a0with another forty or so Shturmovik ground attack aircraft. I shot down two\u00a0when something hit my plane. I made a forced landing and was captured by\u00a0Soviet soldiers. I faked that I was injured as they approached the plane. The\u00a0believed me and took me to their HQ and their doctor examined me, and he\u00a0even believed me. They placed me back in the truck (which was German) on a\u00a0stretcher, and as Stukas made their attacks I rushed the one guard in the truck.\u00a0He went down and I left out the back. As soon as I did that I heard the truck\u00a0stop, so I had to keep moving. I found myself in a great field of very tall\u00a0sunflowers where I tried to hide as I ran, all the while the men chasing me\u00a0were firing wildly in my direction. I found a small village occupied by\u00a0Russians and decided to return to the area I had just come from and wait for\u00a0nightfall. [It was during this time that Mertens took it upon himself to take off\u00a0and find Hartmann, armed with only a rifle and water, being concerned when\u00a0his friend had not returned]. I reached my secure area and took a nap, and later\u00a0I awoke and took off again headed west. I passed a patrol of Russians, about\u00a0ten I think, so I decided to follow them. Then the patrol disappeared over a\u00a0small hill, and then there was a firefight. I knew that that must be the German\u00a0lines since the men of the patrol came flying back over on my side. I then\u00a0walked to the other side and was challenged by a German sentry who also\u00a0fired a bullet at me, which ripped open my trouser leg. I was pretty upset, but\u00a0this man was in complete fear. I was welcomed into their position, given an\u00a0interrogation and was asked to prepare for contact. Another group of Russians,\u00a0obviously drunk walked towards our trenches, and the lieutenant gave the order\u00a0to fire when they came within about twenty meters. They were all destroyed. I\u00a0was later told that a group of Russians had entered their perimeter speaking\u00a0fluent German, claiming to be escaped POWs, and when they came in they\u00a0pulled out some Tommy guns and killed some men. This explained their\u00a0caution over accepting me on face value, as I had no identification on me.\u00a0Everything had been taken when I was captured.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What happened to Mertens? How did you get back?<\/p>\n<p>A: The infantry commander contacted Hrabak and who I was confirmed. They\u00a0sent me back by car, and I was met by Krupi who had just come back from the\u00a0hospital. I was also informed about what Bimmel had gone and done, and I\u00a0was very upset. The next day Bimmel came back and we saw each other, and\u00a0we had a \u2018birthday party.\u2019<\/p>\n<p>Q: Explain what a \u2018birthday party\u2019 is?<\/p>\n<p>A: That is a party that is thrown in honour of a pilot who survived a situation that\u00a0should have killed him. We had a lot of those.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Perhaps the greatest legend surrounding your life was the time you first met\u00a0Ushi and the love that endured through the years.<span style=\"line-height: 1.5;\">\u00a0Describe that first meeting.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>A: We were in the same school, and finally I decided to track her down. I caught\u00a0up with her and a girlfriend and stopped my bicycle, and introduced myself. I\u00a0knew that she was the one for me, although I was only seventeen and she was\u00a0two years younger. Our parents were none too thrilled about it, I can tell you,\u00a0but they came around.<\/p>\n<p>Q: You had competition for her didn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n<p>A: Yes, but I resolved that problem, it was nothing. Ushi and I were destined to\u00a0be together, that was fate. And she waited a long time, even after the war. We\u00a0were married in 1944, but still had little time to spend together.[Actually Erich\u00a0warned the much older boy away from her, and when Ushi told him that he\u00a0was harassing her, Erich beat him up, ending the problem]. We were married\u00a0after I had the Diamonds, and Gerd {Barkhorn] was my best man, with Willi\u00a0Batz and Krupi as witnesses. We could not marry in a church due to the\u00a0logistical problems. That would have to wait until 1956<\/p>\n<p>Q: Tell about the time you received the Oak Leaves from Hitler.<\/p>\n<p>A: That was a strange time. First, most of us were drunk. Gerd Barkhorn, Walter\u00a0Krupinski, Johannes Wiese and I were to report to Berchtesgaden. All of us\u00a0except Gerd were getting the Oak Leaves, he was getting the Swords. By the\u00a0time we got there, we were trying to sober up. Walter always stated years later\u00a0that we had to hold each other up. We had been drinking cognac and\u00a0champagne, a deadly combination when you have not eaten in a couple of\u00a0days. The first person we met off the train was Hitler\u2019s Luftwaffe adjutant,\u00a0Major von Below, who was I think in a state of shock at our condition. We were\u00a0to meet Hitler in a couple of hours, and we could hardly stand. This was in\u00a0March 1944, and there was a lot of snow at that time at that altitude.<\/p>\n<p>Q: I spoke to Walter Krupinski and read about the \u2018hat event\u2019 in your biography\u00a0by Ray Toliver and Trevor Constable. What was that about?<\/p>\n<p>A: I could not find my hat, and my vision was not the best, so I took a hat on a\u00a0stand and put it on, and it was too large. I knew it was not mine at that time.\u00a0Below became upset and told me it was Hitler\u2019s, and to put it back. Everyone\u00a0was laughing about it except Below. I made some joke about Hitler having a\u00a0big head, and that it \u2018must go with the job,\u2019 which created even more laughter.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was your impression of Hitler?<\/p>\n<p>A: I found him a little disappointing, although very interested in the war at the\u00a0front and extremely well informed on events as I knew them. However, he had\u00a0a tendency to drone on about minor things that I found boring. I found him\u00a0interesting yet not that imposing. I also found him lacking in sufficient knowledge about the air war in the east. He was more concerned with the Western\u00a0Front\u2019s air war and the bombing of cities. Of course, the Eastern Front ground\u00a0war was his area of most interest. This was evident. Hitler listened to the men\u00a0from the Western Front and assured them that weapons and fighter production\u00a0were increasing, and history proved this to be correct. Then he went into the\u00a0U-boat war, how we were going to decidedly destroy maritime commerce and\u00a0all of that. I found him an isolated and disturbed man.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was the feeling about the war in your unit at this time?<\/p>\n<p>A: I don\u2019t recall anyone talking of defeat, but I do know that we talked about\u00a0some of the great pilots killed already, and the news of the American\u00a0Mustangs reaching deep into Germany, and even farther. Few of us had any\u00a0experience against the Americans, although many old timers had fought the\u00a0British. Those who fought Americans had done so in North Africa, and their\u00a0insights proved interesting.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was the atmosphere like when you won the Swords?<\/p>\n<p>A: I had just landed after a successful mission when I was told that I had been\u00a0awarded the Swords. This was June 1944. I arrived on 3 August 1944 to visit\u00a0Hitler again for the award ceremony, and there were ten of us Luftwaffe guys\u00a0in all. Hitler was not the same man. This was just after the bomb plot to kill\u00a0him, and his right arm was shaking, and he looked exhausted. He had to turn\u00a0to his left ear to hear anyone speak because he was deaf in the other one from\u00a0the blast. Hitler discussed the cowardly act to kill him and attacked the quality\u00a0of his generals, with a few exceptions. He also stated that God had spared his\u00a0life so that he may deliver Germany from destruction, and that the Western\u00a0Allies would be thrown back inevitably. I was very surprised at all of this. I\u00a0wanted to leave and see my Ushi, and I did.<\/p>\n<p>Q: How was the meeting with Hitler and receiving the Diamonds different from\u00a0the previous two encounters?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well Dieter Hrabak and the rest threw a party before I left, and I was so drunk\u00a0I could not stand the next day. It sounds like we were all alcoholics, but this\u00a0was not the case. We lived and played hard. You never knew what the next\u00a0day would bring. I few my 109 to Insterburg, and JG-52 gave me an escort.\u00a0When I arrived at the Wolfschanze the world had changed. Hitler had already\u00a0begun the trials and executions of those involved and everyone was under\u00a0suspicion. You had to enter three areas of security, and no one was allowed to\u00a0carry a weapon into the last section. I told Hitler\u2019s SS guard to tell the Fuehrer\u00a0that I would not receive the Diamonds if I were not trusted to carry my\u00a0Walther pistol. The guy looked like I had just married his mother. He went to\u00a0speak with von Below, who was a Colonel then, and Below came out said it\u00a0was all right. I hung my cap and pistol belt on the stand and Hitler came to me,\u00a0and said, \u201cI wish we had more like you and Ruedel,\u201d and he gave me the\u00a0Diamonds, which were encrusted upon another set of Oak Leaves and Swords.\u00a0We had coffee and lunch, and he confided in me, saying \u2018militarily the war is\u00a0lost,\u2019 and that I must already know this, and that if we waited the Western\u00a0Allies and Soviets would be at war with each other. He also spoke about the\u00a0partisan problem and he asked me of my experience. Hitler asked me my\u00a0opinion of the tactics used in fighting the American and British bombers.\u00a0Since I did not have a lot of experience with this, I simply stated what I\u00a0thought was a fact. Goering\u2019s orders to combat them and the method\u00a0employed was in error. I also informed him of the deficiencies in pilot\u00a0training; too many minimally trained men were simply throwing their lives\u00a0away. He also spoke about the new weapons and tactics, and then we parted.\u00a0That was the last time I saw him, 25 August 1944. I flew back to the unit,\u00a0where an order for a ten days leave waited. I also had to report to Galland,\u00a0where we discussed the Me-262 situation. I went back to marry my Ushi, that\u00a0was all that mattered to me.<\/p>\n<p>Q: During the war what were your worst fears?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, I feared capture in Russia, that was a very eye-opening prospect. The\u00a0bombing of our cities also worried us, as our families were very dear to us. I\u00a0suppose I was most worried that Ushi would not wait, so I always tried to see\u00a0her whenever I was on leave. Medals meant leave, and that was an incentive. I\u00a0had the choice of losing her or returning all the decorations, I would send the\u00a0medals back. She was too important to me, and always has been. It was later\u00a0learned that the Soviets knew exactly who I was and Stalin placed a 10,000\u00a0ruble price on my head. This was later increased, and Ruedel and I had the\u00a0highest bounties of any Germans during the war, probably with exception to\u00a0Hitler and a few of the Nazi elite. Every time I went up I knew that someone\u00a0would be looking for me. I had thoughts of the American western films, where\u00a0the top gunfighter is called out into the street; another person wanting to make\u00a0his mark. I felt marked, so I had to change my aircraft occasionally. I found\u00a0that when I used the black tulip I had more difficulty in finding opponents,\u00a0who avoided me for the most part. I needed camouflage.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What were conditions like in Russia?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, in the winter you can imagine. We seldom had hard shelter, living in\u00a0tents. The lice were the worst, and there was little you could but hold your\u00a0clothes to a fire and listen to them pop. We had DDT and bathed when we\u00a0could. Illness, especially pneumonia and trench foot were bad, especially\u00a0among the ground crews. Food was always a concern, especially later in the\u00a0war, and fuel restrictions made every mission count. We always flew from grass strips and we were often bombed. These strips were easy to repair, although the terrain made every takeoff and landing an adventure. Sometimes\u00a0fighters would snap their landing gear, or just dig in and topple over. Maintenance was another nightmare, as supplies and parts were difficult to get to, especially when we were moving around all the time. Despite these problems, we were very successful in the Crimea through 1943-44.<\/p>\n<p>Q: I know that JG-52, as well as other units, flew with foreign air forces. What\u00a0was your experience with this?<\/p>\n<p>A: We had a Royal Hungarian unit assigned to us, as well as Croats. They were\u00a0good pilots and fearless in many ways. Good men. We had even more contact\u00a0especially with the Romanians when we were stationed there, and this was\u00a0where we engaged both the Americans and Soviets; a very trying time. We\u00a0were flying in Russia against twenty to one. In Romania, it was thirty to one.<\/p>\n<p>Q: The evacuation from the Crimea was described to me by Hrabak. How was it\u00a0for you?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, I would not call it an evacuation, but a full retreat. We had to move, and\u00a0I discovered that when the radio, armour plate and rear wall, you could stack\u00a0four men in the tail, but three was about the most I would try. We managed to\u00a0save many of our precious ground crew from capture using this method.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What were the Soviets like that you captured? Was there any open racism\u00a0among your men towards these people?<\/p>\n<p>A: Not at all. In fact, I would say that in our group there was the majority who\u00a0found all the National Socialist idiocy a little sickening. Hrabak made it a\u00a0point to explain to the new young pilots that if they thought they were fighting\u00a0for National Socialism and the Fuehrer they needed to transfer to the Waffen\u00a0SS or something. He had no time for political types. He was fighting a war\u00a0against a superb enemy, not holding a political rally. I think this approach\u00a0damaged Hrabak in the eyes of Goering and others, but he was a real man and\u00a0did not care about anything but his men. Hannes Trautloft was the same way,\u00a0as was Galland. All the greats with a few exceptions were like that. We even\u00a0had a Russian prisoner show us how to start our engines in the sub-zero cold\u00a0by mixing gasoline into the oil crankcase. This was unheard of to us and we\u00a0were sure we would lose a fighter in the explosion. It worked, because the fuel\u00a0thinned out the congealed oil, and evaporated as the starter engaged. It was\u00a0wonderful. Another guy showed us how to start a fire under the cowling and\u00a0start the engine, another helpful hint. This same guy showed us how to keep\u00a0the weapons firing by dipping them in boiling water removing the lubricants\u00a0which froze the mechanisms shut. Without the oils, they worked fine. I felt sad\u00a0for these men, who hated no one and were forced to fight a war they would\u00a0rather have avoided.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What were some of your more memorable combat experiences in fighting\u00a0enemy aircraft?<\/p>\n<p>A: One situation comes to mind. I was in a duel with a Red Banner flown Yak-9,\u00a0and this guy was good and absolutely insane. He tried and tried to get in\u00a0behind me, and every time he went to open fire I would jerk out of the way of\u00a0his rounds. Then he pulled up and rolled, and we approached each other head-on, firing, with no hits either way. This happened two times. Finally, I rolled\u00a0into a negative G dive, out of his line of sight, and rolled out to chase him at\u00a0full throttle. I came in from below in a shallow climb and flamed him. The\u00a0pilot bailed out and was later captured. I met and spoke with this man, a\u00a0captain, who was a likeable guy. We gave him some food and allowed him to\u00a0roam the base after having his word that he would not escape. He was happy\u00a0to be alive, but he was very confused since his superiors told him that Soviet\u00a0pilots would be shot immediately upon capture. This guy had just had one of\u00a0the best meals of the war and had made new friends. I like to think that people\u00a0like that went back home and told their countrymen the truth about us, not the\u00a0propaganda that erupted after the war, although there were some terrible things\u00a0that happened, no doubt. Once I attacked a flight of four IL-2s and shot one\u00a0up. All four tried to roll out in formation at low altitude, and all four crashed\u00a0into the ground, unable to recover since their bomb loads reduced their\u00a0manoeuvrability. Those were the easiest four kills I ever had. However, I\u00a0remember the time I saw over 20,000 dead Germans littering a valley where the Soviet tank and Cossacks had attacked a trapped unit, and that sight, even from the air was perhaps the most memorable of my life. I can close my eyes and see this even now. Such a tragedy. I remember that I cried as I flew low over the scene; I could not believe my eyes. Another time was in May 1944 near Jassy, my wingman Blessin and I were jumped by fighters, he broke right and the enemy followed him down. I rolled and followed the enemy fighter down to the deck. I radioed to my wingman to pull up and slip right in a shallow turn so I could get a good shot. I told him to look back, and see what happens when you do not watch your tail, and I fired. The fighter blew apart and fell like confetti. However, separate from Krupinski\u2019s crash the day I met him, one event is clear and comical. My wingman on many missions was Carl Junger. He came in for a landing and a Polish farmer with horse cart crossed his path. He crashed into it, killing the horse and the fighter was nothing but twisted wreckage. We all saw it and began thinking about the funeral when suddenly the debris moved and he climbed out without a scratch, still wearing his sunglasses. He was ready to go up again. Amazing! Then there was the American Mustangs that we both dreaded and anticipated meeting. We knew that they were a much better aircraft than ours; newer and faster, and with a great range. Once in Romania, we had an interesting experience with both Russians and Americans.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What happened on that mission?<\/p>\n<p>A: We took off on a mission to intercept Soviet bombers attacking Prague, and\u00a0we counted many American made aircraft with Red Stars, part of your Lend &amp;\u00a0Lease. But then there were American fighters also nearby, and I was above\u00a0them all by a thousand meters. It seemed that the Americans and Russians\u00a0were busy examining each other and were unaware that we were around. I\u00a0gave the order to drop down through the Mustangs, then the Russian fighters,\u00a0and through the bombers in just one hit and run attack, then we would get the\u00a0hell out of there since there were only the two of us. I shot down two P-51s\u00a0quickly in my dive, and I then fired on a Boston bomber, scored good hits but\u00a0it was not a kill. The second element also scored a kill against the Mustangs,\u00a0and my wingman and I were all right. Suddenly the most amazing thing\u00a0happened. The Soviet fighters and Americans began fighting each other, and\u00a0the confusion worked for us. They must have not realized that it was a\u00a0Schwarm of Germans that started the whole thing! The Russian bombers\u00a0dropped their bombs in panic and turned away. I saw three Yaks get shot down\u00a0and a Mustang damaged trailing white smoke. That was my last fight against\u00a0the Americans.<\/p>\n<p>Q: When did you first encounter the American pilots?<\/p>\n<p>A: This was in the defence of Ploesti and Bucharest, and also over Hungary when\u00a0the bombers came in and they had heavy fighter escort. I was recalled to take\u00a0over the command I\/JG-52, and this was 23 June 1944. B-17s were attacking\u00a0the railroad junction, and we were formed up. We did not see the Mustangs at\u00a0first and prepared to attack the bombers. Suddenly four of them flew across us\u00a0and below, so I gave the order to attack the fighters. I closed in on one and\u00a0fired, his fighter coming apart and some pieces hit my wings, and I\u00a0immediately found myself behind another and I fired, and he flipped in. My\u00a0second flight shot down the other two fighters. But then we saw others and\u00a0again attacked. I shot down another and saw that the leader still had his drop\u00a0tanks, which limited his ability to turn. I was very relieved that this pilot was\u00a0able to successfully bail out. I was out of ammunition after the fight. But this\u00a0success was not to be repeated, because the Americans learned and they were\u00a0not to be ambushed again. They protected the bombers very well, and we were\u00a0never able to get close enough to do any damage. I did have the opportunity to\u00a0engage the Mustangs again when a flight was being pursued from the rear and\u00a0I tried to warn them on the radio, but they could not hear. I dived down and\u00a0closed on a P-51 that was shooting up a 109, and I blew him up. I half rolled\u00a0and recovered to fire on another of the three remaining enemy planes and\u00a0flamed him as well. As soon as that happened I was warned that I had several\u00a0on my tail so I headed for the deck, a swarm of eight Americans behind me.\u00a0That is a very uncomfortable feeling I can tell you! I made jerking turns left\u00a0and right as they fired, but they fired from too far away to be effective. I\u00a0was headed for the base so the defensive guns would help me, but I ran out of\u00a0fuel and had to bail out. I was certain that this one pilot was lining me up for a\u00a0strafe, but he banked away and looked at me, waving. I landed four miles from\u00a0the base; I almost made it. That day we lost half our aircraft; we were too\u00a0outnumbered and many of the young pilots were inexperienced.<\/p>\n<p>Q: How did you assess your enemy in the air?<\/p>\n<p>A: I knew that if an enemy pilot started firing early, well outside the maximum\u00a0effective range of his guns,\u00a0then he was an easy kill. But, if a pilot closed in\u00a0and held his fire, and seemed to be watching the situation, then you knew that\u00a0an experienced pilot was on you. Also, I developed different tactics for various\u00a0conditions, such as always turning into the guns of an approaching enemy, or\u00a0rolling into a negative G dive forcing him to follow or break off, then rolling\u00a0out and sometimes reducing airspeed to allow him to over commit. That was\u00a0when you took advantage of his failing.<\/p>\n<p>Q: There were some sceptics who questioned your kills. Tell about that, and how\u00a0high did it go?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, this happened to a few of us. Goering could not believe the staggering\u00a0kills being recorded from 1941 on. I even had a man in my unit, someone you\u00a0also know, Fritz Oblesser, who questioned my kills. I asked Rall to have him\u00a0transferred from the 8th Squadron to be my wingman for a while. Oblesser\u00a0became a believer and signed off on some kills as a witness, and we became\u00a0friends after that.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Adolf Galland told me of how he tried to get you into his JV-44 in 1945. Why\u00a0did you not take him up on the offer, like Krupi and Barkhorn?<\/p>\n<p>A: I did qualify in the Me-262, but my heart and friends were in JG-52, and I felt\u00a0that was where I belonged. Unit loyalty to me was important. Plus I had many\u00a0new pilots who needed guidance and instruction. They were getting younger\u00a0all the time and had fewer and fewer hours of flight instruction before they\u00a0were thrown into battle. I was needed and that was where I stayed. Rall,\u00a0Krupinski, Steinhoff and others were transferred to the Reich Defense, where\u00a0they ended their war. I was torn between these facts, but I felt that I made the\u00a0right decision at the time. In later years I realized that my life would have been\u00a0very different if I had stayed with JV-44.<\/p>\n<p>Q: How did you end up in Soviet custody?<\/p>\n<p>A: On 8 May 1945 I took off at around 0800 hours from my field in Czechoslovakia going to Bruenn. My wingman and I saw eight Yaks below us. I shot one\u00a0down and that was my last victory. I decided not to attack the others once I\u00a0saw that there were twelve Mustangs on the scene above me. My wingman\u00a0and I headed for the deck where the smoke of the bombing could hide us. We\u00a0pulled through the smoke and saw once again the two allies fighting each\u00a0other above us. Incredible! Well, we landed in the field and were told that the\u00a0war was over. I must say that during the war I never disobeyed an order, but\u00a0when General Seidemann ordered me and Graf to fly to the British sector and\u00a0surrender to avoid the Russians, with the rest of the wing to surrender to the\u00a0Soviets. I could not leave my men. That would have been bad leadership.\u00a0There was a large bounty on my head, much like Ruedel. I was well known\u00a0and everyone knew that Stalin would like to get me. I was marching with my\u00a0unit through Czechoslovakia when we surrendered to an American armoured\u00a0unit. They handed all of us over to the Soviets. I remember Graf telling me\u00a0that, as Diamonds winners, the Soviets would probably execute us if they got\u00a0us. I had no doubt he was right at the time. Graf also mentioned the women,\u00a0children and ground personnel who would have no one to help them; they\u00a0would be at the mercy of the Red Army, and we all knew what that meant.\u00a0Well, we destroyed the aircraft and all munitions, everything. I sat in my\u00a0fighter and fired the guns into the woods where all the fuel had been dropped,\u00a0and then jumped out. We destroyed twenty-five perfectly good fighters. They\u00a0would be nice to have in museums now.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was it like for you when you surrendered?<\/p>\n<p>A: Graf, Grasser and I surrendered to the 90th Infantry Division, and we were\u00a0placed in a barbed wire camp. The conditions were terrible. Many men\u00a0decided to escape, and some were assisted by the guards. We went eight days\u00a0without any food and then were told we were to be moved. All of us, even\u00a0women and children were taken to an open field. The trucks stopped and there\u00a0were Soviet troops there waiting for us. The Russians then separated the\u00a0women and girls from the men, and the most horrible things happened, which\u00a0you know and I cannot say here. We saw this; the Americans saw this, and we\u00a0could do nothing to stop it. Men who fought like lions cried like babies at the\u00a0sight of complete strangers being raped repeatedly. A couple of girls managed\u00a0to run to a truck and the Americans pulled them in, but the Russians, most\u00a0were drunk pointed their guns at the allies and fired a few shots. Then the truck drivers decided to drive away quickly. Some women were shot after the\u00a0rapes. Others were not so lucky. I remember a twelve-year-old girl whose\u00a0mother had been raped and shot being raped by several soldiers. She died from\u00a0these acts soon afterwards. Then more Russians came, and it began all over again and lasted through the night. During the night entire families committed suicide, men killing their wives and daughters, then themselves. I still cannot believe these things as I speak now. I know many will never believe this story, but it is true. Soon a Russian general came and issued orders for all of this to stop. He was serious because some of the Russians who did not stay away and came to rape were executed on the spot by their own men by hanging.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was your internment like in Russia?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, I was somewhat famous, or infamous, depending upon your perspective,\u00a0and the Soviets were very interested in making an example of me. I was never\u00a0badly beaten and tortured, but I was starved and threatened for several years.\u00a0The interrogations were the worst. I know that you have interviewed several\u00a0Germans who experienced the same thing. The stories are pretty much the same, so I won\u2019t go into details. The first thing they did was give us physical exams to determine how fit we were for hard labour. Then they put us on a train which was diverted from Vienna to the Carpathians in Romania. We were placed in another wired prison with Romanian Communist guards. This lasted a week and then we boarded another train. There was no room in these small train cars, so not all could sit, so we took turns. Finally, we arrived near Kirov and disembarked in a swamp. This was our home for a while. Of the 1,500 POWs who were dropped at this place, about 200 lived through the first winter. This I know from some who survived. They were not fed, just worked to death. I was sent to Gryazovets where Assi Hahn was already. He had been a POW since 1943.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Which camp were you in as a POW?<\/p>\n<p>A: I was in several camps, Shakhty, Novocherkassk, where they kept me in\u00a0solitary confinement, and Diaterka. I had gone on a hunger strike to protest the\u00a0slave labor conditions and the fact that the Soviets were simply working men\u00a0to death out of spite. I was ironically placed in a camp at Kuteynikovo where\u00a0my squadron had been based in 1943.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Which camp had the revolt?<\/p>\n<p>A: That was Shakhty. This was when I and others refused to work, invoking the\u00a0Geneva Convention. They placed me back in solitary. This was a work camp\u00a0for mining and many men were tired of it, and I think my being gone started\u00a0the problem. Within a few days, the POWs jumped the guards, cornered the\u00a0camp commandant and freed me. It was quite exciting. Then they sent me to the other camps, and at Diaterka there 4,000 men there.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Describe a camp, how was it laid out?<\/p>\n<p>A: A fine example was Diaterka. There was a high fence, then a dead zone with a\u00a0walkway for guards and dogs, then another fence with watchtowers with more\u00a0guards and machine guns. There were long rows of barracks which were not\u00a0insulated against the cold, and the winters were quite cold I can tell you. Each\u00a0barrack held between 200 and 400 prisoners depending on its size, and there\u00a0were rows of wooden bunks in tiers of three to four. The camp was divided\u00a0into maximum and minimum security sections, with us being in the most\u00a0secure section. The ultra maximum security section housed elite members of\u00a0the Third Reich and special Soviet political prisoners, which was another\u00a0section even within our part within its own wired enclosure. This was where\u00a0Hitler\u2019s SS adjutant Otto Gunsche and Count von der Schulenburg were held,\u00a0among others. I stayed there until 1954 when I was sent back to Novocherkassk. This was my last camp.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Did the Soviets try and recruit you, as they did others?<\/p>\n<p>A: Yes, they offered me the opportunity to return home if I worked as an agent\u00a0for them, which was out of the question. They did not like this either. I was\u00a0assigned kitchen duties as an inducement to become a converted Communist. I\u00a0think that if they could get us high ranking and highly decorated officers to\u00a0convert their job would be made much easier. They converted Graf, which was\u00a0a shame, but he did not embrace Communism. He looked at it as a pragmatist-\u00a0it was either the western way or Soviet way, and he was already there. They\u00a0did release him in 1950, but I would not be so lucky. Those of us who resisted\u00a0were punished much longer. They wanted me as an informer and even gave\u00a0me a list of names of officers they wanted information on. They promised me\u00a0early release if I did this. I refused. They placed me in solitary a few times, for\u00a0a long time.<\/p>\n<p>Q: How did you maintain your sanity when others did not?<\/p>\n<p>A: I thought of my Ushi. She kept me going, and the thought of my family\u00a0waiting for me. They threatened to kill my wife and son, or forcibly bring\u00a0them to Russia, and they spoke about doing terrible things. All of this was to\u00a0break you down.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Did you have mail or communication with Germany?<\/p>\n<p>A: We were allowed only twenty-five words on a postcard to send out, sometimes a lot less, and this was not often. The letters I smuggled out with\u00a0returning POWs provided the information they needed. I received about fifty\u00a0letters from Ushi in the ten and a half years, but she wrote over 400. Getting a\u00a0letter was the greatest morale boost you could imagine.<\/p>\n<p>Q: You and Graf had a parting in Russia. Why was that?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, we had agreed never to surrender our Diamonds to the Soviets. My\u00a0originals were with Ushi, and a copy was taken by an American, and another\u00a0copy I had also. I threw them away, although they were worthless, rather than\u00a0surrender the Graf and had given his, and they were on the table of the NKVD\u00a0officer when I was called in. He wanted mine also. He did not get them. They\u00a0also wanted detailed information on the Me-262, which they had several\u00a0captured machines they wanted to evaluate. I did not help them.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What separated the Germans from the rest of the international prisoners; how\u00a0did all of you manage to survive when so many perished?<\/p>\n<p>A: I would have to say our discipline; we never lost our military bearing and our\u00a0rigid system and mutual respect for our own authority maintained us. We had\u00a0the rank structure and presence of mind to form our own leadership\u00a0committees. Even though we wore no rank everyone understood their place\u00a0and all worked within the system. That was our strength, as well as many of us have our faith in God. I thought of my faith and my Ushi, and that got me\u00a0through. Many men found it difficult when word would come that their wives\u00a0had divorced them, or that a relative, such as a parent had died. My son Peter\u00a0died while I was a POW but I only learned of this much later, a year or more,\u00a0as with my father. I learned more when I was repatriated in 1955 along with\u00a0Hans Baur, Ferdinand Schoerner, Hajo Herrmann, Herman Graf, Johannes\u00a0Wiese, and several others. Assi Hahn was released earlier than the rest of us,\u00a0as was Walter Wolfram who had been badly wounded before our capture.\u00a0Wolfram smuggled a private letter to Usch for me, which let her know I was\u00a0still alive.<\/p>\n<p>Q: You did receive Red Cross packages available to all prisoners didn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n<p>A: Yes, sometimes, but these were often rifled through and delayed so long the\u00a0food contents were worthless. Those packages that did arrive well were very\u00a0helpful, especially when it came to trading with the local civilians. We made\u00a0many friends with the local peasants, and they had no ill will towards us, nor\u00a0we them.<\/p>\n<p>Q: How many missions did you fly in the war?<\/p>\n<p>A: I flew around 1,456 I think, but I am not sure of the exact number.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was your favourite method of attack?<\/p>\n<p>A: Coming out of the sun and getting close; dog-fighting was a waste of time.\u00a0The hit and run with the element of surprise served me well, as with most of\u00a0the high scoring pilots. Once a Russian was shot down, especially the leader\u00a0they became disorganized and easy to attack. This was not always the case,\u00a0especially later in the war, and there were special units of highly skilled and\u00a0disciplined pilots, such as the Red Banner units who would make life difficult.<\/p>\n<p>Q: You were never wounded were you?<\/p>\n<p>A: No. I was very lucky, unlike Rall and Krupinski, and especially Steinhoff who\u00a0was almost burned alive. I was almost killed by a German sentry once returning from a brief period of captivity. That was too close for me.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Were you ever shot down?<\/p>\n<p>A: No, never by an enemy plane, but I had to crash land fourteen times due to\u00a0damage from my victories or mechanical failure, but I never took to the\u00a0parachute. I never became another pilot\u2019s victory.<\/p>\n<p>Q; As far as we know you were the youngest recipients of the Diamonds, at\u00a0twenty-two. Did you find that distinction problematic?<\/p>\n<p>A: I think that being a captain and a Diamonds winner at that age forced a lot of\u00a0responsibility upon me. I think that I was able to handle all of that\u00a0responsibility because of the strength and friendship of my comrades. I would\u00a0say that I was ambitious and eager; I can\u2019t think of any fighter pilot who\u00a0would not have those qualities. Becoming a hero is not always easy, as you\u00a0find yourself living up to the expectations of others. I would have preferred to\u00a0just do my job and finish the war anonymously. It would have made life as a\u00a0Soviet POW much easier.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What events secured your release?<\/p>\n<p>A: Chancellor Konrad Adenauer was very crucial in this. My mother had written\u00a0Stalin and Molotov on my behalf without any response. She wrote to Adenauer and he replied personally that he was working on the problem. The\u00a0Soviets wanted a trade agreement with the west, especially West Germany, and part of this deal was the release of all the POWs. I knew something was going on when we were allowed to go to the cinema and were issued new clothes, suits of a kind, and not prison issue. We boarded a bus to Rostov where we boarded a train in October 1955. Other trains would follow with the\u00a0last coming in December. As soon as the train stopped at Herleshausen I was able to send a telegram to my Ushi.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What would you say were the greatest highs and lows of coming home in\u00a01955?<\/p>\n<p>A: I learned that my son Peter Erich and father had died while I was in prison,\u00a0and that was a hard thing for me, and I will say no more. But my mother and\u00a0lovely Ushi were there waiting for me. They never gave up hope, and I think\u00a0that my belief in their strength was what got me through the most terrible\u00a0torture or starvation. Whatever the NKVD did to me, I just thought about my\u00a0family, and focused upon that. Another sad thing was that when the train\u00a0stopped and we got out, hundreds of women and men were holding\u00a0photographs of sons, brothers, husbands and fathers, all asking everyone they\u00a0saw if they knew of their love one. Many thousands had died and there was\u00a0rarely any communication back home to anyone as to what had happened, so\u00a0many never returned and the families knew nothing. They were simply ghosts\u00a0who vanished. I find that very sad.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What was one of the first things you wanted when you came home?<\/p>\n<p>A: Well, a good meal, and a hot bath! But to see my Ushi was the greatest dream.\u00a0I also read everything I could find; newspapers, books and magazines, I\u00a0wanted information. I had been in an intellectual vacuum for so long, I wanted\u00a0knowledge. Of course, Ushi and I had our church wedding, long overdue.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Was there any celebration for your return?<\/p>\n<p>A: Yes, a big party was planned but I declined it. I did not feel that it was\u00a0appropriate until everyone was home who was still alive. I also could not\u00a0believe the rebuilt areas and numbers of new cars, the aeroplanes in the peaceful\u00a0sky. The clothes style was new, all of it was new. One of the first people to\u00a0meet me was Assi Hahn, who had been home five years before.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Why did you join the Bundesluftwaffe. Was there anything in your mind that\u00a0would have prevented you from wearing a uniform again?<\/p>\n<p>A: There is always the thought that you may once again be in the same situation\u00a0again. I was thirty-three when I came home, and that is late in life to start a\u00a0career. I had lost touch with much of the world, but the one thing I knew was\u00a0flying and the military. That was a safe call to make. The thought of fighting\u00a0another war also frightened me. But I also thought about the needs of my\u00a0country, and my old comrades had joined and were pressuring me to do the\u00a0same. Krupi called and wanted me to join he and Gerd Barkhorn on a flying\u00a0trip to England. Dieter Hrabak even came and talked to me at the house. I\u00a0joined in 1956. The old boys were back.<\/p>\n<p>Q: How did you get back into flying?<\/p>\n<p>A: I had a friend who let me fly his light plane, and I certified as a private pilot.\u00a0Heinz Baer was also a great help, as were others. I took refresher and conversion training in Germany, England and the United States on the newer models. I was made the first Kommodore of the new JG-71 \u201cRichthofen\u201d and I was very proud.<\/p>\n<p>Q: I know that you and Steinhoff, among others, warned the German government\u00a0of the F-104 program and that this was a very sensitive issue. What do you\u00a0say about that today?<\/p>\n<p>A: Yes. Well, the Starfighter was a great plane, but it had problems, and I did not\u00a0feel that Germany needed, or that our pilots could even handle this machine\u00a0without a lot more experience. Much higher up felt that I was out of line, but I\u00a0stated what I thought was accurate, and I was proven correct, but this made me\u00a0enemies. I also did other things that were considered criminal, such as having\u00a0the unit\u2019s F-86s painted with my old tulip pattern, and I created the squadron\u00a0bars, like in the old days, and this raised eyebrows. I felt that morale was\u00a0important and camaraderie through a unique and distinguishing emblem was\u00a0needed. The bars were killed under superior directives, although today all\u00a0squadrons have them. I did have supporters, such as General Kammhuber, but\u00a0he was a rare breed from the old days.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What did you do after retirement?<\/p>\n<p>A: I instructed and flew at a few air clubs, and flew in an aerobatics team with\u00a0Dolfo Galland. Later I just decided to relax and enjoy life. I have my family\u00a0and friends and am always meeting new ones, like you Colin. We have\u00a0spoken often for many years, but I feel that now is the time to say some of the\u00a0things I never really spoke about. There is always a time for everything.<\/p>\n<p>Q: One question many people may have is how can you not have hatred for the\u00a0Russians after your experiences with them?<\/p>\n<p>A: One thing I learned is this: Never allow yourself to hate people because of\u00a0the actions of a few. Hatred and bigotry destroyed my nation, and millions\u00a0died. I would hope that most people did not hate Germans because of the\u00a0Nazis, or Americans because of slaves. Never hate, it only eats you alive.\u00a0Keep an open mind and always look for the good in people. You may be\u00a0surprised at what you find.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The last Interview with Erich Hartmann Of all the fighter aces in history, the first name who usually comes to mind is the &#8220;Red Baron&#8221; and Erich &#8220;Bubi&#8221; Hartmann. Therefore those two are top in our best fighter pilots in history ranking. If you are not familiar with the best fighter pilot ever &#8211; you [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":2989,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","editor_notices":[],"footnotes":""},"categories":[12,18,20],"tags":[92,169,170,214,343,346],"class_list":["post-2983","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pilots","category-uncategorized","category-world-records-aviation","tag-best-fighter-ace-ever","tag-erich-bubi-hartmann","tag-erich-hartmann-interview","tag-fighter-ace","tag-me-109","tag-messerschmitt"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.0 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Final Interview with Erich Hartmann | MiGFlug.com Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/migflug.com\/jetflights\/final-interview-with-erich-hartmann\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"de_DE\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Final Interview with Erich Hartmann | MiGFlug.com Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"The last Interview with Erich Hartmann Of all the fighter aces in history, the first name who usually comes to mind is the &#8220;Red Baron&#8221; and Erich &#8220;Bubi&#8221; Hartmann. 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